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Airbus Investigates Flying in Commercial Formation

送信時刻：丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前

To save fuel. The idea - act like a flock of birds. Severa spoke city’s (London Paris Madrid) rendezvous and fly formation over the Atlantic before reaching NYC. This will save fuel on the flight.... they’re gonna have to get a lil better with on time performance to make this work..lol (www.cnn.com) さらに...

airuphere

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Ken McIntyre 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 5

So, several large jets have to circle until the formation can be made. How would that save fuel?

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royalbfh 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 11

So, we just had a story about two high time commercial airline pilots that could not fly an ILS and now we expect them to fly close enough to reap the airflow benefits? cool.....

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airuphere 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 4

Yeah no doubt...lol. In the test program they’re talking about eventually having flight cpus similar to the ata refueling ones to do this procedure. Would be between 1.5-3 nm off the vortex.

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Michael Stansfield 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 3

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with this plan?

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Tim Eichman 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

Bah, Airbus computers will handle it all...

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James Cross 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

I totally missed that – do you mind linking to the squawk?

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James Y 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 2

The article quoted Dr Sandra Bour Schaefer, CEO of Airbus’ fello’Fly:

"They will be 1 1/2 to 2 nautical miles away from the leading aircraft, and slightly offset, which means they are on the side of the vortex. It's no longer the vortex, it's the smooth current of rotating air which is next to the vortex, and we use the updraft of this air."
Taking advantage of the free lift in this updraft of air is called "wake-energy retrieval." Bour Schaeffer says that upcoming flight trials using two A350s could prove that on long-haul flights, fuel savings of between 5% and 10% may be achieved, "which is an enormous number. This is the reason why we want to accelerate it. It is not a product today, but it is something we strongly believe in."

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Harry Hallstrom 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 0

Ya, especially when a vortex is invisible not unlike published procedures and gps points of an ILS approach.

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Ed Chapman 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 4

Sounds like somebody needs to be drug-tested.....

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Harry Hallstrom 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 3

So tell me..........
Is the risk verse reward worth the price???
IMO NO !!

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Chris B 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 4

I swear this is one of those ideas that comes out every so often.....

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royalbfh 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 5

remember the article about "circular" runways to reduce airport footprints?

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Robert Cowling 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 2

This does make some sense, but isn't that the whole idea of 'airways'? I've zoomed out on the Aviation Weather site that shows planes in the air, and many ARE following each other. They aren't 'in formation', but aren't hundreds of miles apart either. But why not use larger planes? That would seem to make more sense?

I imagine, as climate change gets more severe, planes in formation hitting severe turbulence and needing to divert, or change altitude or speed, will make it dicey to have groups of planes following each other over long distances. Taking a train might be safer than being in the middle plane of a string of planes crossing storms and severe weather.

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FlaminSquirrel 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 2

"But why not use larger planes?"

I'm guessing because airlines will already pick the most efficient aircraft type to fly a specific route anyway.

This would allow aircraft heading in the same general direction, but that are not necessarily heading to/from the same location, to fly even more efficiently (e.g. flights across the Atlantic).

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airuphere 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

Should add... It’s called “fello’fly”.

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Andy Bowland 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

It is more of an internal fact finding mission...as opposed to "Investigating Formation Flying"

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Laurent FRUTIN 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

nice..

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Greg77FA 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

We all know what turbulence can do to a plane in wake turbulence. With computers and experienced pilots maybe it could be ok. Otherwise, I the only resemblance to a bird are some nice swan dives occurring over the Atlantic with last minute recoveries.

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ADXbear 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

Never happens by humans, maybe computer flying.. so many risks.

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ToddBaldwin3 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

It seems like I've read about this idea before. It's an idea that keeps coming back.

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ToddBaldwin3 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

I knew I had read about this before.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a9257/vortex-surfing-formation-flying-could-save-the-air-force-millions-on-fuel-15703217/

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bbabis 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

Too risky for the fuel savings with human pilots. This will most likely come about after commercial aircraft are autonomous and the lead aircraft precisely controls the others in the formation.

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Ric Ben 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

If Aircraft manufactures really wanted airliners to fly in formation, like geese, they would have installed horns instead of TCAS.

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Raleigh Truitt 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

These responses show the depth of ignorance of non-flyers of aviation! It has been pointed out that the 1 ½ to 2 mile distance between planes with the trailing plane at a different flight level and offset to the side doesn’t come close to “formation flying.” It’s more like the “same way” “same day” type of flying. I’d speculate that some special station keeping equipment (SKE), such as the C-130 has had for over 40 years, would do the job nicely and quite safely.

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patrick baker 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 -5

this is astonishly ill-advised, for unless the pilot used to be a BlueAngel or THunderbird demonstration pilot, what could go wrong with close formation flying? Maybe the pilot flew tanker aircraft or used tankers to refuel- again, what could possible go wrong ????? Don't expect an autopilot to make this a safe operation. Whoever seriously pitches this catastrophe-in-waiting should walk the plank into being fired.

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Mike Bogue 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 9

Why bother reading the article before responding to it?

"It's very, very different from what the military would call formation flight. It's really nothing to do with close formation,"

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SkyAware123 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

They are 1.5 to 2 miles away. That's HARDLY Blue Angel or Thunderbird territory. But hey, reading is hard....

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Raleigh Truitt 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 0

These responses show the depth of ignorance of non-flyers of aviation! It has been pointed out that the contemplated distance of 1 1/2 to 2 miles with the trailing plane at a different flight level and offset to the side hardly constitutes "formation flying." It is more like "same way, "same day" type of flying. I'd speculate that some special station keeping equipment (SKE) hooked up to the autopilot, such as the C-130 has had for over 40 years, would do the job nicely and quite safely.

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Roy Bentley 丁度一年（虎舞流ｗ）前 1

SKE was originally used to keep ships (Boats) in formation. Boeing has developed FFS (formation flying system) to better keep aircraft in formation (3 dimensions to include altitude) Would work for heavy airlift flying in formation with Brigade airdrop capability.

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Airbus Investigates Flying in Commercial Formation

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