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CEO: Boeing made mistake in handling warning-system problem

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And yet people here will continue to insist the problem is with the pilots, airlines, and maintenance, ANYTHING but Boeing. (www.apnews.com) More...

Jim Myers
ADS-B FeederOutspokenPromoter

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ebrites
scott ebrite 10
I'm amazed the Boeing CEO and most of the upper management bean counters still have jobs. This is a failure of culture, practice and policy. The buck stops at the top.
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usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 1
Such is corporate culture today; I seek better than this; wish everyone else would also. The "old boy network" covers many problems, but does not protect new hires.
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picturetaker
Christian Parada 5
And some people will still blame the pilots.
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speshulk99
john kilcher 0
Here is the secret, they're all people of color.
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Your secret formula for propping up a weak argument isn't much of a secret anymore. In fact I'm pretty sure everybody knows.
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 3
Jim, the text box labelled "description" you see when submitting a squawk is for a brief description of the article, as odd as that may seem. Using it as an opportunity to launch preemptive pot-shots at people you don't happen to agree with is not a good look (it's also a battle with MH370 that you cannot win).
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lynx318
lynx318 2
Boeing take prime position for fault, FAA and airlines share second place.
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DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
I do not subscribe to taking personal attacks on people , that have serious involvement in this matter . I believe that no matter the seriousness of design flaws , and FAA failure's in this matter ,i do not believe they did so out of a malicious malice ,and incompetence . While we now know the results of Boeing's mistakes in design , I do not believe it allows us to swear at them and belittle them . Many people have died and people will be held accountable , but there are plenty of words in the English language to express our anger and rage , with-out stooping to gutter talk . These are my personal opinions , from a guy from an Airline family that has seen it's own tragedies due to poor design . Thats all .........DGR
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wmhudspeth3
William Hudspeth 2
NO SHIT!
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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
I probably sound like a broken record but, if previous variants had the AOA disagreement light and on the Max it was optional, how did any of these crews successfully perform a cockpit light annunciator test or more specific a Flight Display annunciator test? Did any of the previous airlines Lion Air or Ethiopian have variants that were equipped with functioning AOA indicators and dis-agreement lights?
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lynx318
lynx318 1
Previous variants of 737 don't have MCAS or AoA sensor disagreement alert systems. Only the 737-Max variants' did.
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[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 3
Thanks, but we all know the history, but the question was not answered?
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tyketto
Brad Littlejohn 2
You do know that telling a lie over and over and over again still makes it a lie, right? Test flights and such don't matter when test flights overlook the more than well-documented hardware design flaw of the B38M and B39M, let alone the fact that the horrible idea was made by Boeing to try to fix it with software that didn't have all of the logical checks it needed to ensure full functionality.

But yeah, keep on telling the lie so you can blame everyone else except those that deserve the blame.
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Amazing how "telling a lie over and over and over again" can become "more than well-documented" when it happens to suit your purpose.
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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
Still doesn’t answer the question. I’m sure with your extensive background in aviation and with many type ratings and hours of experience it’s easy for you to figure out which is truth and which part is not? Incidentally, when you do a test flight do you check the system for functionality or pul out all the engineering diagrams and then tell the manufacturer how to build it better?
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tyketto
Brad Littlejohn 0
I agree with what you're saying here, but that isn't the point I'm making. The point here is that linbb above has done everything possible except for point the finger at where the blame truly lies, and is trying to back up that assertion with baseless claims. "It's the pilot's fault!" "They were poorly qualified!" "If this were in a first world country this would have never happened!" Yet disavowing the fact that a B38M had major engine problems on a SWA flight out of KMCO.

The point here is that the pilots did everything they were told by Boeing to do, and the aircraft failed them, but someone who refuses to believe that Boeing had a problem keeps on saying the same thing, despite the evidence showing them the contrary.
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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
It’s only his expressed opinion as stated before. However there is still no answer to my original question and maybe there isn’t one?
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tyketto
Brad Littlejohn 1
To your original question, I think the answer is that we probably will never know. It's going to take some testimony from Boeing either in Congress or the EU Parliament or something, but that also depends on if anyone in those positions are aviation savvy. Due to that lack, I'm not sure we'll ever know.
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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
The question was: Do the flight crews of Lion Air/Ethiopian accomplish an annunciator light test as part of the cockpit preflight?, and were previous operated variants equipped with AOA indicators & Dis-agreement warning light. Did the crews know what indication they were supposed to look for? So Boeing, Congress or the EU can’t answer that one? But I think you’re right, we may never know?
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
For both ng and max the indicator was optional and the disagree warning was standard. The latter was inoperable on the max because they screwed up and made it dependent on the former (Boeing used the term "linked" for some reason).

I assume you, like me, would like to know how something could be non-functional, let alone missing entirely, from a modern flight deck and nobody notices. Is this not what pre-flights are for? Either way, it shouldn't have surprised anyone after the first crash because it was part of the AD issued shortly thereafter.

"Did the crews know what indication they were supposed to look for? So Boeing, Congress or the EU can’t answer that one?"

Congress? Are you feeling ok? Anyway, wouldn't this be a question for the airline?
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
"The point here is the pilots did everything they were told by Boeing to do"

So are you saying that (a) the pilots didn't leave the throttles at take off power, or (b) the manuals say to leave the throttles at take off power.

Fire at will, but please don't forget to answer the question before you hit the post button (A or B). And I'd love to hear what the SWA engine failure has to do with any of this, but I won't hold my breath on that one.
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royhunte92
Roy Hunte -3
When in a dive you never restart the throttles, the nose will go further down......
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royhunte92
Roy Hunte -1
That was supposed to read never retard the throttles.
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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
You might leave the throttles at a certain setting if the aircraft is under positive control and at an airspeed “you” want ( such as a barrel roll ) otherwise it’s flight idle & maybe flight spoilers every time.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 1
how about throttles idle and dropping the gear every time. deploy the spoilers in a lear and you have sealed you fate in a mach tuck overspeed event pretty much every time so far. And you are a consummate diplomat in your response to rh. long live the xbox pilot.
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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
LOL, the “maybe” was in there for us Lear drivers’ to snicker at, although no disrespect intended to the victims!
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millcreek134
CAROLE GRALIA 1
REALLY????????????????????
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Well what are you supposed to do, pull up and watch the wings fall off or point it where you want the crater?
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DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 1
I heard Chesley Sullenberger tell the Members at a Committee on the Hill , that he Flew 3 re-creations of the incident Air Craft in a Simulator . He said something along the lines , That even knowing what was going to happen in the Simulation , the MCAS take over , happened so fast and unpredictable , that he himself could not save the Simulated Incident Flt . Now Sully carries a lot of wait , but he spoke also for all Captains and 1st officers in the US who are just as good as he is , that are faced with returning to flying the Max . It is questioned that the very design changes to allow for the new power plants are the reason for MCAS . So the programming solution is all that Boeing has . If i was a Flight crew , Cabin Attendant or a Passenger , do we play Russian Roulette ? Do we Trust Boeing's claim of the Fix ? The more i read and hear , the more i wonder if related Gov't regulators around the world will give the Max permission to Fly . So does the Max have a future ? I don't know .
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JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 2
You heard him say a little more than he actually said.

"I recently experienced all these warnings [stick shaker & clacker] in a 737 MAX flight simulator during recreations of the accident flights. Even knowing what was going to happen, I could see how crews could have run out of time and altitude before they could have solved the problems"
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speshulk99
john kilcher 0
Capitalism doesn't care until the proles stop consuming. Muilenberg should be indicted for the murder of 348 people, but the system doesn't recognize murder for the elite. Plain and simple from where I see it.
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usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 1
Capitalism is just raising money for a big project; everyone uses something like this all over the world. This comes more under the category of "current corporate culture". which is obviously lacking. The old dogma of capitalism vs socialism is today a beaten down dog surviving from the 19th century.
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millcreek134
CAROLE GRALIA -1
SAD TO SAY WE ARE NOW IN A DAY AND AGE OF TOTAL LIE AND DENY. IT IS NEVER "MY" FAULT BUT ALWAYS "THEIR" FAULT. SO MANY AVOID TAKING RESPONSIBILITY BUT SEEM TO HAVE NO PROBLEM KNOWING THEIR ERROR TOOK HOW MANY LIVES?
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