FAA suspends more sleeping controllers

Well got to remember that in the day you have more stuff to do. And the control tower is more occupied

Proverbs 15:22

I think your last line there about attitude toward the job probably summarizes this whole thing in that a good work ethic is getting harder and harder to find these days. BTW, in one of your comments above, you quote a tad of scripture. I just have a limited version Bible Program on my PC here at the office but have a much broader one at home. Would you mind giving me the version,chap/vs that quote is out of as I could not pull it up here. Wayne

I agree with you that a second person in a cockpit is not just for company, but is very instrumental and necessary for all of the tasks at hand for a successful flight.
And yes, while shift work and long hours have been around forever, it seems that the only thing that has changed is the people and their attitude towards their job.

Call it incrimination if you want, but I don't know much about designing buildings, and as I said, what set me off is that you and several others seem to think all a 2nd man is in a cockpit for is to talk to the other one and keep him awake. Based on that, you seem to have no knowledge of a Tower Operation either and seem to be getting caught up in the emotion of the rest of the public. Shift work and lonely hours are not new and have been done for eons. This wouldn't even be talked about if it weren't for that high profile deal at Reagan a few weeks ago as they are handling others.

Wayne - I see we have resorted to incrimination. You are correct, I am no "Mr. Left Seat", just an enthusiast. However, as a structural engineer, I place no difference in safety factors in designing a simple deck or a multi-story office building. As to controlling airplanes, regardless of in ANY cockpit or in ANY tower, safety should be the number one concern, even if that means having an extra set of eyes and ears. Even the bible says "in the multitude of counselors, there is accomplishment".

No Excuses."Suspensions"? These should be automatic terminations. You sign up to be an air traffic controller then you sure as hell should know the job responsibilities and what you're getting yourself into. You can't stay awake then take a daytime desk job somewhere and give the position to those who REALLY want to be a controller. This is just blatant irresponsibility and immaturity. Grow up and do your job or take a hike.

Didn't know that Tom, and that does shed a new light on things. I have Night dispatchers that pull 12's by themselves on weekends but my God, they do have SAT TV and/or radio. I would think a man would go stark raving crazy without something to break the monotony. Hearing that, I really can't blame them for napping if the intensity is bad low

A few years ago, the FAA required all towers to remove any possible "distractions". This included any source of music. No there is no stimulus when things are slow. There is nothing more tiring than nothing to do, and nothing to hear, no matter what the pay. No stimulus. Even surgeon have music in the OR. But, in the FAA's wisdom, they are perfect, and it must be the controller's fault.

You are correct that someone was in the right seat but it was not to keep me awake; it was because it takes 2 to fly the damn plane!!!!!!!!!!! What has really set me off here is that you and several others have insinuated that there are 2 men in a cockpit for safety and/or to keep each other company. Haven't looked at all of them but I notice you have no certificate at all. Let me be clear. A cessna 150 or equivalent can be, and in most case, is flown by 1 person. A CRJ or 757 is not!!!!!!!!!! A tower can be handled by 1 person, depending on traffic intensity. This controller thing wouldn't even be out in public if the Reagan deal hadn't been at such a high profile Airport. People been doing shift work for eons, so what makes him special. You work at night, you better sleep during the day.

Wayne - I, in no way, presume to dictate what pilot regulations should be in place, whether it's grampa's cessna in the barn or a Bookout Airlines 757. Besides, I'm sure you had someone in the right seat, correct?

Well, I can agree with the AV enthusiast in you but there were 2 things in your original comment that caught my eye. You insinuated that there were 2 men in a turbine cockpit for safety or to keep each other company. That's BS my friend. Try flying a 757 by yourself. Secondly, I am very familiar with intensity, having done that left seat in a tight and cramped pattern in the daytime at KDFW and many others, but what started this whole dialogue was the sleepy one at Reagan National. He was not on rotating or changing shifts. He was going into the 3rd night of and 8 hr workshift. People do that all the time. Don't like it. Quit. Go to sleep. Fire him or give him a threat too. 2 planes is not intense!!!

Wayne - "slow airport" is very arbitrary and circumstantial. Plus, for the FAA to choose airports to be uncontrolled would place too much liability on them should something go wrong, something of which I'm sure they would not want to accept.
As to the requirement for controllers and pilots, this again would be circumstantial. The number of controllers should be based on intensity of airspace, not personal airport movements. This will obviously differ from NY airspace and the midwest.

Michael: Why not just make a slow airport uncontrolled for that period of time. You'll notice that in all thiss mess only 27 controllers have been added. How many manned towers around the country? As far as your last statement about a requirement, aren't any turbine cocpits that I know of that are certified for 1 man operation, hence a 2 man requiremenr. Different story on the towers. People work shift work all over the country.

There is absolutely NO excuse for falling asleep...whether its manning an LP, pulling meaningless guard duty at a barracks or performing ATC functions...NO effing EXCUSE...fire the SOBs!

Damian - 5, really? That may not be a wise use of taxpayer money. For night shifts, there may only be a handful of aircraft movements the entire shift, a number that perhaps only 1 person could handle themselves. But it's the fact of having someone else on hand for bathroom breaks or just to talk with that's wise. Why would they require any less in a control tower than in a cockpit?

Hmmmmmm, add another controller so they can take turns sleeping. These people get paid very well to do their job. Is that asking too much?

Ok, I would like to see one thing happen though. There should at least be 5 ATC's in the tower at any giving time. No matter how slow the airport is. They can keep eachother awake

If he's that outraged, he'll give these controllers a partner, and let them go back to work. Notice how nobody sleeps during the day, even at the slowest airports? Suspensions and firings aren't the solution!