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  • 36

United Airlines Customers Outraged After Being Put Up in Military Barracks

送信時刻:
 
Service with a smile -- or not. Not sure refund is going to make these people very happy. (www.nbcnews.com) さらに...

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joelwiley
joel wiley 14
Here is the flight:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL958/history/20150612/2050Z/KORD/CYYR
I wonder if they would have preferred to carry on and maybe end up treading water somewhere in the North Atlantic.

Barracks accommodations appear to have improved since I sampled them. Only one bed in the room, and no gentlemen to comment on the way you made them.
RRKen
Let me see if I got this straight. Flight leaves ORD and gets diverted to Goose Bay for some reason at 2300 hours. I am sure if there was a problem with the aircraft, the decision to divert, and where to divert came from some front line manager and the crew. Not upper-management.

Once there, accommodating 200 passengers in a town with only 3 hotels would have been difficult. Mind you at that time of night, upper management would have been at home in bed, so the decision was made by UAL staff on-duty. In looking at what kind of accommodations exist in Goose Bay, it is reasonable to think that there were not enough rooms available. In looking at the map, it would be unreasonable to bus them to neighboring towns where they might find hotels, that could have taken all night to accomplish.

You will not find United Airlines staff in town (Except the resting crew) because UAL does not fly to Goose Bay. That is a reasonable expectation.

This story is blown all out of proportion and in my eyes, has nothing to do with the competency or lack thereof with upper-management.
sparkie624
Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope.. LOL
joelwiley
joel wiley 10
Of course they would. It itches terribly, and chafes to boot!
wopri
Well said for sure. The nearest "neighbouring town", as you put it, is 529 km away, or about 7h 30min driving over a rough gravel road called "Trans-Labrador Highway". It's called Labrador City and has barely more inhabitants or hotel/motel facilities than Happy Valley - Goose Bay.
wopri
Maybe the complainers don't realize that Goose Bay is a very remote town with very limited hotel facilities. Just google Happy Valley - Goose Bay (the complete name) and see for yourself. Even United has no resident magician who can make hotels appear out of thin air.
blheadley
This was for 20 hours. Imagine how I felt when I got drafted for two years.
joelwiley
That was different - 2 years to life, whichever came first.
mikemalin44
In the 70's when I flew out of there , the barracks seemed like a Five Star hotel . Spent many a nite and loved every one of them .
sparkie624
Since those people were so uncomfortable in the barracks, maybe they should have setup outdoor pup tents like the scouts use... Maybe they would have been happier than stuck in a large barracks.... At least the pup tents would have given them the privacy that they so desired.
joelwiley
They probably kept it heated when in regular use. And the supply room had extra blankets.
Can you imagine the temerity of the RCAF not keeping the building heated just in case of a diversion? <snark off>
wopri
Yeah, the President should send the Marines to teach these RCAF guys a lesson, and Canadian Bacon should be renamed Freedom Bacon immediately!
rapidwolve
Please keep comments like that to yourself!
joelwiley
I think the system may have missed the <snark off> flag and continued snark with WP's comment.
wopri
Of course Joel, as there is no "joking" font yet we have to rely on people's inbuilt joke detectors.
rapidwolve
Imbuilt joke detector maybe, but some of those who served in the RCAF are sick and tired of being the brunt of those style jokes.
canuck44
canuck44 1
That is the role of the junior service.
joelwiley
Spoken like a senior officer, (medical)
a digression:
“You're paid to stop a bullet.
It's a soldier's job, they say.
And so you stop your bullet,
And then they stop your pay.”

The job of the medical service, was to patch up the casualties, so they can go out and stop another one.
Spoken by a junior enlisted, (medical).

Rapidwolve, thank you for your service.
canuck44
canuck44 3
I spent many years as a fishhead communications officer and watchkeeper long before I went to Medical School going from ordinary seaman to midshipman to commissioned teaching in Operations and Maritime Warfare. Med school was a way out...probably not the best choice given all my "pupils" are retired and the course of medicine today.
joelwiley
Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Thanks for the services.
wopri
Could you consider that the brunt of this joke is not the RCAF or the people who served , but rather the clueless complaining passengers with their entitlement mentality?
rapidwolve
For where they are Mike, they still are not bad at all..its a tad difficult to fire up boilers and make rooms warm on 15 mins notice..lol..I remember hearing it taking 3-4 days to get rooms somewhat comfortable after firing up the boilers.
LoralThomas
I think what pissed the passengers off not only was the sleeping accommodations but the fact that no United personnel had any contact with them. Well, how about the flight crew? A gathering with the captain along with United's apology would have gone a long way. And maybe if the flight crew had bivouac with the passengers at the barracks instead of enjoying whatever comforts the hotel offered, like heat, would have made them more a part of the flight instead of segregating themselves. They were the only representatives on hand for the airline -- time for them to put on their Public Relations hat.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 7
The crew needed the comfort of hotel rest, but at the very least should have spoken with the passengers before leaving. Management's at fault for not assigning someone locally to interact with the passengers.
preacher1
In reality, they shouldn't have to make such an assignment. That is the Captain's job. He was obviously in contact with somebody at UAL anyway.
preacher1
preacher1 16
I remember several years ago, pre-merger, that UAL ran a TV commercial showing a managerial meeting and then the boss showing up about 10-15 minutes late, his whereabouts unknown and the frustration felt by all managers at the meeting. When he did arrive, he told them that was how pax felt when they didn't know what was happening. Sounds like they might need to do it again.
30west
30west 1
From my experience, dispatch would initiate the process within UAL to get the accommodations rolling at the non-Company Station airport to contract local support to manage the arrangements for rooms, meals, transportation, etc. The Captain normally would check to make sure that the pax were being taken care, the on-scene contracted coordinator had the situation well in hand and brief the pax on the details.

The dozen, or so, crew members were rightfully put up in hotel rooms for adequate crew rest before they were required to fly.
joelwiley
If that were the case here, then shortly after dispatch initiated the process, they probably would have found there was no infrastructure for rooms, meals, transportation, etc. We often forget how big the world is and that not all of it is urban and that you can't get blood from a turnip.
30west
30west 4
Agree. They were limited and had to make do with what was available in the area.

Having been to Goose, Gander and Saint Johns, I can attest to the great service provided there day and night. Friendly and cooperative folks who want to help as much as they can.
canuck44
canuck44 4
So very true. The Newfoundlanders may be poor but they will share what they can with anyone in need. They are welcoming and friendly without reservation. Goose has been losing function since the institution of long range aircraft that did not need to be refueled transiting to Europe.
Until the mid-2000 they provided a home to Germans and Brits doing low level flight training. This got to be a hassle when the envirowhackos began to protest that the low level flight were disturbing the breeding of various forest animals. They still do some training there but little year round employment from this.
Some cold weather aircraft testing has been done.
I stayed in the Officers' Mess and it was comfortable and in fact warm. The mosquitoes were enough to restrict my travels to the bar and back.
wopri
You are right on the money as far as the crew rest is concerned, after all someone has to fly out of there once the problem is fixed. Also, they should have talked to the passengers about the situation, but United probably has no representatives at Goose Bay. It is situated in Central Labrador, 15 hours by road, most of it on rough gravel, will bring you to the edge of the populated part of Canada. Just finding a person other than the crew who could speak for United must surely take several hours.
joelwiley
Good points. Wonder how much more there is to the story and if it will come out.
BuddyMyers00
Wow I am sure that if they could have found a better place to put them up then they would have. Robert I would love to hear what you would recommend they do?
klaytonroark
nope the plane is just now leaving Goose Bay , in the air now to Newark a few days later :
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2195/history/20150615/2300Z/CYYR/KEWR
LoralThomas
United sent another plane to Goose Bay to pick up the passengers. Chicago news report says nothing about which crew flew the return flight -- the ones that brought the new plane or the well-rested ones stuck at Goose Bay. Seems a lot of this story is missing. With no United personnel on the ground at Goose Bay still think the Captain blew it in not being more forthcoming with the passengers. He/she could have least told them whatever he/she knew at the time. Updates would have been nice, too. But in all fairness to the crew, only the passengers have invaded cyber space!

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/United-Airlines-Chicago-Flight-Military-Barracks-307305951.html
preacher1
I figure the rested crew(s) flew it as they went on across the pond I think.
LoralThomas
The new plane and passengers went to Newark. Then eventually on to London.
canuck44
canuck44 1
Sounds like Chinese Fire Drill at UAL ops.
LoralThomas
OK - the big question is: do the frequent flyers get miles from Chicago-Goose Bay-Newark-London or is United going to be cheesy and only award Chicago-London?????
klaytonroark
the plane is just now being returned to United Hub - in Newark - the fixed plane is on the MOVE: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2195/history/20150615/2300Z/CYYR/KEWR
cleardestination
I smell a reality show here .
johnbriersr
passengers can be MORONS! No airline keeps "stand by" accommodations for an emergency destination. They diverted there for one simple and over riding reason--SAFETY!! Something was wrong with the airplane!!This was the closest runway to go to. That is the decision maker! Not if the place had a bunch of five star hotels!

and yes, the crew who is charged with your pansy ass NEEDS TO SLEEP TO BE SAFE!! Ride a ship next time and hope is isn't a remake of the Titanic!!
preacher1
Well said. Sad part is, in this forum we are probably preaching to the choir. LOL Everybody here is pretty much in agreement. No comments on here from any of those pax.
cleardestination
During the 9/11 crisis , 38 airliners , with approximately 6500 people were diverted to Goose Bay as requested by the FAA . The aircraft were all destined for the USA .
wopri
Could it be that you are mixed up between Goose Bay and Gander?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellow_Ribbon
cleardestination
Yes , my mistake , Gander received the 38 a/c , Goose Bay 7 aircraft , approximately 700 people
wopri
That was quite a touching story in Gander during the 9/11 crisis. Here is a report that appeared in a New Jersey newspaper on the tenth anniversary:

http://www.northjersey.com/story-archives/9-11-fear-sent-scores-of-jets-to-canada-detour-landed-them-in-world-of-generosity-video-1.1203377?page=all
rad2
Smisek management style shows up!! Ever since this clown took over, the airline has deteriorated, in all aspects. There still seems to be a two team operation. I prefer the old United crews. They seem to be a bit better at passenger relations. Although I do detect the friction between the teams. I expect more to come. Does anyone know the reason for the diversion?
rad2
On another web search, the reason given for the diversion was "maintenance issues" Whatever that means? Could be anything, so better safe than sorry.
preacher1
I personally think that the old UAL crew of losers is working their way back in in places. I thought and still do that Jeff made a big mistake moving to Chicago. A big part of the management team did not go with him and he wound up surrounded by the very bunch of losers he needed to get rid of. Doug Parker is doing a lot better going to DFW than Jeff did going to ORD.
rad2
You are right. The old UAL upper management were pretty bad and should have been dumped. They were the Steve Wolf gang and those folks messed up the airline to the point where CO had the opportunity and tried to pick up the pieces. Smisek should have removed the upper management, but I think there was some under the table merger rules in play. The old UAL operational crews are the folks I referred to in my original post. Flying UAL in the 80s & 90s was a pleasure.
preacher1
I think you are right about the under the table rules in play. I think going to ORD was one of them. Problem was he just got outgunned by not having all his folks go with him.
flyer217773
you are so sadly mistaken. After UAL bought Continental, Jeff was kept in place as part of the deal as United's CEO wanted to depart. Jeff then systematically loaded the board of directors, displaced almost all UAL management and replaced them with his Continental Crew. Almost no UAL managers exist today. The problem...Continental management running an even larger airline... as well as they ran theirs into the ground and were almost on the verge of another bankruptcy when UAL purchased them. A typical Preacher...not knowing what they are talking about.
joelwiley
Were on the board during the transition and have expert insider information, or is your source wikipedia?
rad2
Bottom line is, the current management team is no where near capable of running the show. I hope there is an overhaul soon to save the combined airline. The routes and equipment are top notch. The people with their hand on the hardware are top notch as is the cabin crews. A solid management team should be able to make beautiful music with these devices.
preacher1
Well, I won't argue with you this early in the morning other than to say UAL did not buy CON. It was the other way around. As far as this situation, I can guarantee you I know what I am talking about. Past that, we will just have to disagree. UAL was in the ground and CON was up and coming.
flyer217773
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/03/us-united-idUSTRE64136420100503
United Airlines parent UAL Corp will buy Continental Airlines Inc for $3.17 billion in an all-stock deal that will form the world's largest carrier and potentially prune excess capacity in the airline industry.
Not wikipedia. Fact.
preacher1
It was instigated by CON and this is how it came down, in an all stock deal, with Jeff running things. Given the choice he would have stayed in Houston. Ask him. I did and that is what he said. Have a nice weekend.
klaytonroark
The fixed plane is on the MOVE - Monday Evening 6/15 - airborne : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2195/history/20150615/2300Z/CYYR/KEWR
CPSL
Joe Mama 1
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys are great!!!! The commentary is so funny!!!!

I loved the one about treading water in the North Atlantic!!

Some folks don't have a clue!!! They should be thankful for the Capt. decision!
Airthy
I have
Spent many a night in Goose over the past 20 years. One hotel is OK, they were better off at the base. Of course no one from UAL is available, only the crew in town and they needed the rest. I have also been there in minus 40, so just relax a bit and take it as an adventure. It was a brilliant solution to open the barracks instead of having 200 people like sardines in terminal. But why on Earth did they fly them back to Newark instead of sending the replacement aircraft up to Goose?

Ah well.......complain complain. They get a free flight and it costs a fortune to fly commercially into Goose!
rapidwolve
Its sad when an airline like United takes almost 24 hrs to get a replacement craft there when they have a HUB in NJ
sparkie624
Keep in mind that this was an International Flight and other regulations since it was out of the country comes into play... things always takes longer when you have customs to deal with.
dmitze01
Air force barracks always beat army "accommodations" - per this former US Army 12C. I'd take that over a tent or trying to sleep in a terminal in a heartbeat! What a bunch of whiners... those pax. Man, have we gotten soft in the West - too many years of peacetime I guess (since the last Big One).
rapidwolve
Many thanks for your service as well Dan.
Jblitzer
Just be happy to talk about the event.
Richiebacardi
Slightly misleading headline. It seems the passengers are upset more about the lack of comms rather than where they were accommodated
preacher1
For all the comments on here, pro and con, it seems that one of the biggest factors in all this was lack of communication between UAL and the pax. People have come to expect detail and what's going on. It must be adhered to. I can remember back in the day. I used to take a flight on NWA from MEM to GSO. Pilots and crew were notorious for no communication. NWA chalked it off to being busy with ATC, but c'mon people, how long does it take to key a mike and say a word or two.
pnschi
pnschi 1
I'm glad finally someone is sticking up for upper management! And of course anyone who complains with how they are treated should always consider how lucky they are that they weren't in the army, or in prison, or dead in the middle of the Atlantic, because they're only paying customers, that give the airline every penny it ever receives. Not like they're upper management or something.
canuck44
canuck44 1
This shows United has no decision makers on duty in their operations unit. They all knew there was a problem when the captain diverted and Goose has been pretty much unchanged since WWII so they knew what was available.

United had a A319 sitting in St John's (560 miles away) as did their partner Air Canada which had a 319, a E75 and an E90. While it would take some organization and they knew the aircraft was not going to be fixed any time soon, the passengers could have been moved to St.John's or Halifax (600 miles away) and then either accommodated or picked up to finish their trip to London by either UA or AC.

These would take cooperation and organization, neither of which seemed to be available.
30west
30west 3
I doubt very much that the A319's were ETOPS certified and the crews were ETOPS/NATS qualified.
artiejay
well just goes to show you that united airlines is the worst and I mean the worst airline. I fly alot overseas and would never fly united airlines. I would fly 1000 out of my way to fly on another carrier. it just goes to show you the USA carriers don't give shit about their customers, the bottom line is all that matters. if they(united) this type of unprofessionalism up they won't have a bottom line. people fly some other airline. there are plenty to choose from
rwf1001
A disgusting show of disrespect by United towards the passengers on one of its flights. Putting the passengers up in military barracks with NO HEAT and one or 2 blankets per passenger, while the crew was put up in a hotel is just plain WRONG! Giving the passengers of that flight their money back isn't good enough....if United is sued over this won't surprise me one bit!
usad
usad 3
Not taking up for UAL, but given all the facts, if you were on that flight, wouldn't you want your flight crew rested...sharp...in excellent flying form, before you got back on a plane with them? I don't think I would care to be around a flight attendant that didn't get a good night of sleep, either, come to think of it.
preacher1
Just in a bit of defense of UAL, at least they had a place for them. I can't speak about the heat. I can say they did the right thing on the crew as far as them getting best rest possible if they were going to fly. Only 2-3 motels in Goose Bay and I think they were fairly full.
wopri
There is not much going on at CFB Goose Bay, there are lots of empty barracks to put up people, but it is not in the mission of 5 Wing, RCAF, to provide shelter for hundreds of passengers at a moment's notice. Keep in mind that it may take several hours for an unheated building to warm up, even once the hating system is turned on. And, as you say, the couple of motels don't have the extra capacity to house more than the flight crew.
wopri
Sorry, correction, "heating system" of course! :)

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